Dialogue Beyond Dogma: Building Real Relational Trust

Can a society move past centuries of religious division by simply changing how we talk to each other?

In this episode of Leading Dialogues, Swami Purnananda sits down with Adrian Cristea, the Executive Officer of the Dublin City Interfaith Forum (DCIF) and a representative of the Romanian Orthodox Church. Together, they explore Ireland's rapid transformation from a religiously homogeneous society into a thriving, complex tapestry of global faiths and secular worldviews.

Adrian pulls back the curtain on nearly 15 years of grassroots and civic work of DCIF, explaining why the secret to true community integration has nothing to do with debating complex theology and everything to do with building raw, human relationships. The conversation covers the massive post-communist resurgence and growth of the Romanian Orthodox Church on the island, how the forum partners with state entities to tackle modern systemic issues like racism and migrant integration, and how ancient traditions can heal modern scars.

We also get an exclusive look at the 2026 Annual Interfaith Pilgrimage, a symbolic trek along the Monaghan and Fermanagh border designed to transcend sectarianism and celebrate our shared humanity.

Dublin City Interfaith Forum Website: https://www.dcif.ie/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Well, I'm delighted to introduce another guest on our podcast series, Leading Dialogues. And as the name suggests, we are here to uh have some interesting conversations with interesting people along the lines of uh understanding better communication with different people and so on. And you'll have noticed that previously we have um interviewed some people from the Dublin City Interfaith Forum. And I'm delighted to introduce to you Adrian Christian, who is the executive officer of the Dublin City Interfaith Forum. Uh, he has a background in sociology and social work with a master's degree from Trinity College in Dublin, but he's played a key role in establishing the first official interfaith forum in Ireland that was launched in January 2012. So Adrian works in interfaith integration, multicultural city, multicultural city context, and he has led the process of devising what we call the Dublin City Interfaith Charter, which I'm sure he'll talk a little bit about. But Adrian is passionately committed to the achievement of such things as racial justice, interfaith dialogue, human rights, interculturalism, uh, interreligious dialogue and activity and so on, and also the role of religion in integration and social cohesion. And I think, Adrian, it's fair to say that you are the driving force. I know you probably won't uh exactly like what I have to say, but the driving force behind the uh the Dublin Center Faith Forum. So uh welcome, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, first of all, good morning, um good morning, Swami, and good morning um all to all our listeners. Um thank you for uh giving uh me this opportunity uh to talk about um the Dublin City Interfaith Forum and the work we we do. Um it's a privilege to be here. Um you mentioned uh we've been ex in existence for well since 2012. So um we're approaching 15 years soon. You also mentioned the um I suppose the one of the cornerstone um cornerstones of of of a foundational um if you want document that we launched um almost 10 years ago in December. Wow. So there are we're we're we're approaching some significant milestones as as an uh interfaith and interreligious um organization um uh uh operating in Ireland, not just in uh Dublin City.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

So how how did it all start, uh Adrian? Um what were the pioneering beginnings of this? And why why also do you think it was important in the first place to have such a thing?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Um we have to uh back backpedal a little bit in the in in the past. Um I I think the the the the Dublin City Interfaith Forum developed uh in response to a very visible change in uh in in Dublin to start with um social and cultural landscape um that we all noticed over the last um uh two, three decades, I'd say. So Is Ireland transitioned from a um relatively homogenous society um um in in in in in a religious context to a far more uh diverse uh uh community um and and particularly in in in uh in in large in in cities in urban centers um like like Dublin. And there was this uh increasing awareness that um um the the the existing uh civic structures not always provided space for a good meaningful um interreligious uh engagement. So the forum or DCIF as we uh uh as we bandy around the acronym um emerged as a grassroot um community-led uh response to this gap. Um it it it it was initiated uh intentionally and and and and developed um as a top-down uh organization um as a collaborative platform where religious leaders, community representatives, civic actors could meet informally, build relationships, and begin to um address concerns.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I mean an example of the cultural shift that has taken place is your own church because not only do you um are you the executive secretary, but you also represent the Romanian Orthodox Church. And um how rapidly has that grown in Ireland, which is essentially, at least culturally, um dominated, according to the census, probably 68% registered Roman Catholics. And in the face of that, um how has your your own church grown? I think your surname also means the follower of Christ.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

So yes, yeah, um, yeah, um depends how far back in history you go. My first name, Adrian, comes from um I looked it up um uh one from the uh shores of the Adriatic sea. So there you go. That's that was before that was BC. Then A D indeed, yeah, it comes from Christ. Um so follower of Christ. Um so um, which brings us br brings us to um the current um I suppose um profile and and and and and position of the Romanian Orthodox Church. Let's be clear, there are a number of uh ethnic Orthodox churches in in Ireland, but I would say without hesitation that uh the Romanian Orthodox Church in Ireland is probably one of the uh if not the largest Orthodox Church on the island of Ireland, not just uh in the Republic. Um current um statistics indicate that in the region of hundred thousand uh people subscribe to the um Romanian Orthodox Church, which leads you know gives uh an indication w of where it places itself.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Um in the I mean that's a huge uh that's a huge uh number of people in an island which is has a relatively small population.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Well I suppose it depends on how how how you look. Uh you meant you mentioned the the the percentages yourself. Um um last CSO um statistics showed that just under 70% of the population are Catholic and subscribe themselves to a Catholic uh uh uh tradition. Um ten percent uh don't subscribe to any religion, so the rest is divided between the rest of us, uh all other Christian groups and uh all other religions, as you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Well, something that we haven't really prepared for uh in this, but has occurred to me now, I suppose, and that is that generally, certainly in Europe and probably America too, uh let us care let us say developed countries, there has been uh over a few years a decline in the interest in religion itself. And um so that 10% that you mentioned is quite significant. And I suggest that if you ask that 10% uh what their worldview is, some might say, well, we don't believe in any religion at all, but we do think that there's some supreme being somewhere, you know. Another percentage might say, well, we just have no interest at all, we're either agnostic or atheistic. And others say, well, we're just getting on with our life, you know. And so um as far as we are concerned, of course, uh, if we have a philosophy, as is in our case, which is very universal, then we can embrace any of those kinds of people, but I suppose the last one, you know, who are just not interested in anything, you know. So there has been a tremendous shift. And so I I mean, how do you think the uh there's been, I should mention, there's been a shift, of course, in Roman Catholic um ritualism in a sense since the Vatican Council too and their attitudes as well. And I suppose the thing that I've noticed is that the changes have been controversial. Seem, I have to introduce the word seem, seem to be controversial, whereas uh the Eastern Orthodox churches have not changed so much and have remained stable. Is that is that uh accurate?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yes, it would I suppose there are some small changes, um um, but overall the Orthodox churches um have uh have kept the um the early church uh format in terms of um ritual, in terms of um um um observing the faith um it itself. There are changes in in in terms of uh um I suppose admin uh administration with more uh churches become uh independent churches rather than autocephalous as as as as as um that's that's the uh an aim. Um but um apart from this uh it's it's uh it remains very much um the the the the the church of the early um of the early ages. Um I I I suppose in a way um this is something that appeals to people. Um it's something that people value and and and this is why you see uh if if you visit Orthodox churches at at um uh praying or or service times, you'll rarely find empty churches. Um they are thriving at the moment. I know um for a fact that uh in eastern in Eastern Europe after the fall of the uh communist regimes uh there was a massive resurgence to to the church.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

And in fact, I think in in in Bucharest there is a massive, massive uh church being built, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 13:13

I think yes, you are right, indeed, yeah, is the um uh I suppose the the one one of the largest Orthodox churches um um in the world, I think. Um was built over the last I think it was inaugurated la last summer, um and it was built over uh the last five, six years um as a tribute to the church for for regaining its rightful place in society. Um so um it it's again, you know, views are uh uh uh split in terms of whether it was needed or not at such scale. However, uh it's there now and it's in use and people enjoy it. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I I I think it's controversial in the beginning, and but after some time it becomes part of the part of the scenery, and people appreciate it more, more after the fact when it's in use, and generations look back and they don't understand maybe the finance that went into it, and maybe some of the hardships that went into it and so on. Adrian, what do you think, what what would be the most recent major accomplishments of the DCIF that you can you could highlight for us?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I suppose depends on um depends at what level you want to look at. If you want to talk about our work in uh Europe, we we there's there's a good few things we can talk about there there as well. If you want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Well we could we could start off we could we could yeah, we could we could we could start off locally for sure. And and also maybe you could make a comment because you're now touching on uh on a pilgrimage, which I would like you to talk about. But also the fact that maybe Dublin City Um Interfaith Forum uh might give people the impression that it is confined to Dublin. And I'm not sure if that's true, but maybe you could say a few words about that. But you know, over the last few years, I think probably there have been some significant developments in Ireland. We can move on then to um to European relevance also, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Well, I think one of the key um elements um in in in in um I suppose one of the key priorities in the work of the Interfaith Forum was uh prioritizing dialogue um and also building trust among communities, um uh encouraging personal encounters rather than uh theological debates. So this um this this this is uh this is how we started basically. Um but in time this this um rather informal um format became more structured and evolved into a um civic structure, civic platform that now includes a wide range of Christian denominations, um Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, um and other belief communities. Um so the the the the key uh principle from the beginning was inclusivity, ensuring that um uh a multitude of of um religious perspectives um are part of the conversation. So um you may remember you were part of it, uh all those early meetings, building workshops, um structured happening on a regular uh basis that led to create this foundation of relational trust um with a significant uh civic reach, um, and then developing structured programs that connect interfaith dialogue to um real uh real world social challenges. That this is how safe haven uh anti-racism uh um and religious hatred program emerged. This is how our work with the schools uh um uh uh happened um and other institutions um statutory or or community groups.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So um I mean it sounds like the social and interreligious impact that the foreign forum has made over the la over the various years has been uh fair uh pretty impactful. Would you would you say that is true?

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Well, we'd like to think so. You you mentioned earlier um some of the challenges that we we had right from the start in terms of uh securing uh um continuous and adequate uh levels of funding. This is something this is still ongoing after all these years, nearly 15 years, where we're still relying on on um only one staff, um um and and and and and supported by volunteers and interns. Um so um the challenges are still there, um but yet um we've we've uh managed to uh given the structure that that we we put in place um create an organization that um lasted and and uh delivered uh um uh at all these levels, uh local, national, and uh further afield in Europe.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Now it seems to me that um uh from my my experience of visitors coming to Ireland and so on, uh connected with the interfaith movement, that they view the Dublin City Interfaith Forum as a kind of unique project for many of the reasons that you've mentioned. We don't discuss theology, we don't get into that, we try and find the commonalities, we encourage dialogue, a joint project, uh the uh social and interreligious obvious impact that it's had, the fact that there is a hub by which people can refer to in order to get understanding or information about different issues and about uh different uh religious perspectives and even locations over the years. And so I suppose that leads to then the impact that we have made uh in in uh other European centers and uh other European places.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yes, I I I I suppose um while our um day-to-day work is is rooted around Dublin and and Ireland, uh and Ireland, Ireland of Ireland, um uh more more recently over the last uh uh decade or so, uh our work is increasingly connected to wider European um interfaith and intercultural uh networks. Um we engage in uh um I suppose knowledge and resource sharing platforms, uh collaborative forums. Um you may remember Cities Faith and Community Forum that were one of the founders a few years ago. Um and and and other uh organizations that um use um uh interreligious um networks to bring uh together um stakeholders working in like like cities organizations working on integration, social cohesion and inter religious. dialogue. Um we also um organized ourselves and um and participated in um various um events like conferences and um workshops focused on migration, integration, faith uh based um civic engagement. So all these I I guess uh work engagements um allowed um our experience Dublin's experience in a way to be shared as a case study in um interfaith cooperation um I mean I think the the this is a hugely viable thing that is naturally uh a necessity for central governments throughout Europe and in Ireland itself uh to be interested in particularly as things are generally speaking um replete with uh more issues that would not have been there some 10-15 years ago uh such as uh migrant issues such as refugee issues such as um the increasing secularism and um the idea of multiculturalism that may not have dominated in a country like Ireland some years back um so uh do you feel that um governments should be much more interested in the whole thing well this this is something we felt from day one since we started working um um in in this field since we created the uh network um i i I suppose um over the years we engaged uh in in um um um various policy meetings uh either with the government or government uh bodies uh such as um uh department of education department of health the um police force uh guardashiakana um exploring uh uh ways uh or initiatives on how better to um integrate um our our our uh um I suppose newly found diversity uh um and and and ensure some so some sort of um social cohesion is is begin is is is happening um we um we're also um we don't have all the answers um but because we collaborate with other cities who've been there before we we're we're trying to learn as well uh cities such as Edinburgh Amsterdam uh Brussels Barcelona who've been dealing with these issues uh much longer than we have um of course there's there are different contexts but essentially the the issues are are the same uh around uh migrant integration around ensuring social cohesion um so um and I also think that uh dublin city itself as a uh city council as I call it um uh see the great value of that in the sense that uh a charter was given to the Dublin City Interfaith Forum yes I we mentioned at the start of our discussion um we're and we're hoping to mark this uh uh uh 10th anniversary um uh around um around December when uh I think it was 16th of uh December when 2016 when we launched um at the um at the mansion house the uh where that's the um where the uh both residence and office of of the Lord mayor of Dublin is uh which in a way underlines our connection with the with the city structures um because like many um um interfaith organizations and and and civic um or uh uh networks DCIF operates in in in a um in in in in a complex and evolving environment so yeah and um then of course one of the great sponsors of the DCIF was would be the uh Columbia Columbans um who uh not only um sponsor us in various ways but also have uh coordinated uh events that kind of bring us together in the spirit of St.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Columbanus those of the viewers who don't know who St. Columbanus is well the great source of all knowledge is Google I suppose um and to see that uh there was a kind of missionary endeavor that went from Ireland uh and to France and other places and there's a kind of pilgrimage journey that he did St. Columbanus that is throughout Ireland and there's a forthcoming event you want to tell us a little bit about that yes um and thank you for bringing this up so I mean it's this is a more recent development um in in in um I I suppose you know a broad range of programs and activities um the uh second annual interfaith pilgrimage is taking place next Saturday on the 25th of July um and as you mentioned we will be walking for a much shorter section of the Touris Columbanus uh route uh where Saint Columban who started um uh around the sixth century um to walk from Carlo to Bobbio in Italy um so um he would have uh walked through from Carlo through um um cavern last year we had a short walk around the sacred sites of Ireland uh the Hill of Tara Dream Becking Abbey this this year we'll be walking um along the border between Monahan and Vermont with visiting churches historic points uh learn a bit about the history more recent history uh a legacy and some reconciliation so everyone is uh welcome to join us it it's free the details are on a Van Bright annual interfaith pilgrimage 2026 feel free to uh register and attend wonderful I mean an event like that epitomizes uh the heart I suppose of the Dublin City Interfaith Forum in the uh from the point of view that it doesn't matter what religion you are doesn't matter whether you're short or tall or whatever it is or what age you are for that matter that there is a kind of cohesive fraternity and sorority if you like that's going that goes with this whereby uh when we meet it really goes against a typical kind of idea about religions and the sectarianism within them to say let's put that aside actually there we have common ground the common ground is our basic humanity and within that basic humanity a drive toward perfection and so we all have a common goal and uh we express it in different ways no doubt but many events I think the tree planting event is another thing which uh uh takes place annually uh which is part of the the Jewish um tradition as well and it is events like this I suppose that really express the significance and importance other events of course and um programs and workshops and what have you emphasized human rights um interculturalism dialogue of course we mentioned religious integration social cohesion all of these are so vital and I think that's what makes Wednesday faith forum absolutely vital and the approach unique as well even though as you say we are learning um we you we mentioned some very various obstacles though you know and the key one of course would be financial and uh with so many disbursements on other projects and so on and so forth that government departments have for example uh it seems that organizations so vitally important like this always seem to struggle a little bit in terms of finance but I think there's a facility on your website isn't it um that is able to if people wish to uh seeing the huge importance of this wish to contribute um you want to tell us a little bit about that yes yeah again uh thank you for bringing this uh this this issue uh that's that's been with us since the um start of uh of the forum um like I mentioned we do operate in the in a complex and evolving environment and and uh one of the main challenges is ensuring consistent funding hence the need for diversification of source sources of funding uh donations um are also um is one of of these sources and donations can be made practically by everybody all you have to do is um log on to our website www.dcif.ie and there's a there's a facility there is um um uh on on the home page that um donation can be made uh with the click of a button um so um um we we're very grateful for all the support that we we we've been receiving um over the years um and uh we we try to uh honor um our supporters through the work and the uh um um i suppose the long-lasting uh uh impact I guess um our work uh um uh makes at both um local and and uh national level. I might even go as far as to say that this organization, because it's not just confined to Dublin but it's the whole of Ireland and also Europe is there and all of those connections that it is a significant interfaith movement and that it is in fact so significant and so important in the world we live today you know the conventional idea about religions and it may be one reason why there's a decline in interest in religions is that historically religions have not been the best example of harmony and peace. And so it's a new era and I suppose it is bringing all these strands together in one place to show this commonality of purpose and this spirit of oneness which is really very different from the antagonistic separatism that we could find in the world today which has lingered in the past and probably will be there in the future as well but at least this is a movement more significant probably than something like United Nations and what have you that would be my personal comment but we are we're going to to wind the thing up a little bit and I wonder is there something that we haven't covered that you'd like to highlight specifically and that you'd like to comment on or mention.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

No I think you made a very good point so I mean in in in terms of how DCIF is positioning itself um in in in society um but I would add here that DCIF is um is is is is as a civic actor is rooting itself in principles of human rights equality and respect for diversity we're not a purely theological forum and that needs to uh be understood there we operate as a as a platform for building relationships um and for contributing to social cohesion in in in our societies and how do we do that we do that by creating these spaces where um communities from different diverse backgrounds come together um around the values that we all share like dignity inclusion respect um and and this is not just an abstract idea it's it's a lived experience through dialogue uh joint actions like uh we talked about the this um interfaith pilgrimage and other initiatives and the other the other example of our public involvement is the participation in uh public commemorations and and um solidarity events where we come together to respond to uh issues such as racism inequality community tension so all these activities show our unity um and um and and expressions of solidarity really that's wonderful and I think the uh the phrase that was most outstanding for me that you mentioned was building relationships and I think maybe that's really uh what it's very largely all about yes relationships and trust among the communities very important it's been an absolute pleasure uh uh talking to you and um thank you very much for sharing with us because uh many people have no idea really about the important work that the DCIF are doing and I have to thank you personally for your tremendous work involvement enthusiasm and energy that you put into this so um thank you again well thank you Suami thank you for having me here and thank you also for being one of the drivers behind the Interfaith Forum you've you've been there um uh a solid supporter over the over the years so your contribution is hugely appreciated so thank you right